http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity?hl=en
Atheism-vs-Christianity@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Weird, yet strangely compelling French Army Cartoon - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/0c9a1bae0d243dcb?hl=en
* Awakenings - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/c7bcb4123e4127f1?hl=en
* Another Theist bites the dust. - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/e4d18055d0abcf63?hl=en
* YOUR HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS FOR R.B.D.P. - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/63299bc2270a49ad?hl=en
* Nice. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/91d6751736ff8cb2?hl=en
* Congratulations - 11 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/d322fa2af711303a?hl=en
* Vatican raises the white flag.. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/c0bfa2389b80f1a9?hl=en
* Please help me understand. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/4ccde3b062522deb?hl=en
* OT. 13 Days of Christmas Campaign Against Child Abuse - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/6a8110621f5d13ba?hl=en
* Theism and Special Privilege - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/3cc405563ba2a0ae?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Weird, yet strangely compelling French Army Cartoon
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/0c9a1bae0d243dcb?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:26 pm
From: Answer_42
On Dec 2, 1:49 pm, Eris <vith...@gmail.com> wrote:
Great animation.
Those who beleive in faith will like it!
_________________________________
I am fond of saying that reading the Bible turned me into an atheist.
-- Ruth Hurmence Green
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Awakenings
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/c7bcb4123e4127f1?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:28 pm
From: "Brock Organ"
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Turner Hayes <lordlacolith@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or rather, Christians without the deliberate misleading and hypocrisy of
> "standard theism" would have to rely on reason, and they are unable to do
> that. :)
It is a virtue to point out the notable and specific limitations of
humanistic reason.
Regards,
Brock
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:34 pm
From: "Turner Hayes"
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Brock Organ <brockorgan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Turner Hayes <lordlacolith@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Or rather, Christians without the deliberate misleading and hypocrisy of
> > "standard theism" would have to rely on reason, and they are unable to do
> > that. :)
>
> It is a virtue to point out the notable and specific limitations of
> humanistic reason.
It is a virtue to point out the notable levels of idiocy riddling the
theist's worldview.
Regards,
Brockner
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Brock
>
> >
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another Theist bites the dust.
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/e4d18055d0abcf63?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:29 pm
From: Tom Dierden
Drafterman wrote:
> The "Western" world is more religious than the "Eastern" world. So
> what, exactly, are you babbling about?
>
> On Dec 2, 8:54 am, thomas <tdier...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> LedZepp,
>>
>> What is needed is a revival of faith. For too long the western world
>> has invested in the empty void of materialism, and even in the
>> churches the taint of materialism stains the cup of the sacrament.
>> From birth the children of the west are fed a steady diet of
>> amusements, sugars, and fats, and no spiritual meat. Faith is the
>> bread of life, and the mother's breast of the west has for too long
>> been the dispenser of death. When you see a revival of faith in the
>> west, then you see strong men and women once again proclaiming the
>> glory of God, and the victory of Calvary. Then you will see
>> Christians standing steafast against the forces of evil that corrupt
>> the fabric of western culture.
>>
>> thomas
>>
>> On Nov 27, 11:49 am, LedZepp <FledZeppe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Wanderer then LiamToo, who would be next and why?- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>>
> >
>
To Drafter and Turner,
The western world is in a Twilight Zone. The materialistic culture has
corrupted and infected every aspect of western life, science has
advanced beyond the boundaries of moderation and prudence, the way of
power has been overshadowed by the monolith of materialism and its
co-benefactor. It is the partnership of materialism and capitalism that
have taken control of God's creation and corrupted every aspect of life.
The Christian followers have lost their way under the heavy burden of
modern life. And western culture has infiltrated the church and the
pews, so that the church now is in partnership with the state. But many
are beginning to awaken and see the folly of the church state, and how
politics has allowed these modern twins to invade every aspect of life
and the church. The church must be free of the state, or there is a
cohabitation with mammon. Mammon now rules the churches in the western
culture.
thomas
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:33 pm
From: "Turner Hayes"
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Tom Dierden <tdierden@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Drafterman wrote:
> > The "Western" world is more religious than the "Eastern" world. So
> > what, exactly, are you babbling about?
> >
> > On Dec 2, 8:54 am, thomas <tdier...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> LedZepp,
> >>
> >> What is needed is a revival of faith. For too long the western world
> >> has invested in the empty void of materialism, and even in the
> >> churches the taint of materialism stains the cup of the sacrament.
> >> From birth the children of the west are fed a steady diet of
> >> amusements, sugars, and fats, and no spiritual meat. Faith is the
> >> bread of life, and the mother's breast of the west has for too long
> >> been the dispenser of death. When you see a revival of faith in the
> >> west, then you see strong men and women once again proclaiming the
> >> glory of God, and the victory of Calvary. Then you will see
> >> Christians standing steafast against the forces of evil that corrupt
> >> the fabric of western culture.
> >>
> >> thomas
> >>
> >> On Nov 27, 11:49 am, LedZepp <FledZeppe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Wanderer then LiamToo, who would be next and why?- Hide quoted text -
> >>>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >>
> > >
> >
> To Drafter and Turner,
>
> The western world is in a Twilight Zone. The materialistic culture has
> corrupted and infected every aspect of western life, science has
> advanced beyond the boundaries of moderation and prudence, the way of
> power has been overshadowed by the monolith of materialism and its
> co-benefactor. It is the partnership of materialism and capitalism that
> have taken control of God's creation and corrupted every aspect of life.
> The Christian followers have lost their way under the heavy burden of
> modern life. And western culture has infiltrated the church and the
> pews, so that the church now is in partnership with the state. But many
> are beginning to awaken and see the folly of the church state, and how
> politics has allowed these modern twins to invade every aspect of life
> and the church. The church must be free of the state, or there is a
> cohabitation with mammon. Mammon now rules the churches in the western
> culture.
>
> thomas
Sometimes I wish I were that kid in that Twilight Zone episode who could
send people to a cornfield in another dimension.
>
>
>
>
> >
>
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:38 pm
From: checkers
On Dec 2, 10:33 pm, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Tom Dierden <tdier...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Drafterman wrote:
> > > The "Western" world is more religious than the "Eastern" world. So
> > > what, exactly, are you babbling about?
>
> > > On Dec 2, 8:54 am, thomas <tdier...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> LedZepp,
>
> > >> What is needed is a revival of faith. For too long the western world
> > >> has invested in the empty void of materialism, and even in the
> > >> churches the taint of materialism stains the cup of the sacrament.
> > >> From birth the children of the west are fed a steady diet of
> > >> amusements, sugars, and fats, and no spiritual meat. Faith is the
> > >> bread of life, and the mother's breast of the west has for too long
> > >> been the dispenser of death. When you see a revival of faith in the
> > >> west, then you see strong men and women once again proclaiming the
> > >> glory of God, and the victory of Calvary. Then you will see
> > >> Christians standing steafast against the forces of evil that corrupt
> > >> the fabric of western culture.
>
> > >> thomas
>
> > >> On Nov 27, 11:49 am, LedZepp <FledZeppe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >>> Wanderer then LiamToo, who would be next and why?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > To Drafter and Turner,
>
> > The western world is in a Twilight Zone. The materialistic culture has
> > corrupted and infected every aspect of western life, science has
> > advanced beyond the boundaries of moderation and prudence, the way of
> > power has been overshadowed by the monolith of materialism and its
> > co-benefactor. It is the partnership of materialism and capitalism that
> > have taken control of God's creation and corrupted every aspect of life.
> > The Christian followers have lost their way under the heavy burden of
> > modern life. And western culture has infiltrated the church and the
> > pews, so that the church now is in partnership with the state. But many
> > are beginning to awaken and see the folly of the church state, and how
> > politics has allowed these modern twins to invade every aspect of life
> > and the church. The church must be free of the state, or there is a
> > cohabitation with mammon. Mammon now rules the churches in the western
> > culture.
>
> > thomas
>
> Sometimes I wish I were that kid in that Twilight Zone episode who could
> send people to a cornfield in another dimension.
chx
your wish is granted...now go build the machine and your'e on your
way ;)
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:41 pm
From: "Turner Hayes"
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:38 PM, checkers <mkoneill@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 10:33 pm, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Tom Dierden <tdier...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Drafterman wrote:
> > > > The "Western" world is more religious than the "Eastern" world. So
> > > > what, exactly, are you babbling about?
> >
> > > > On Dec 2, 8:54 am, thomas <tdier...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> LedZepp,
> >
> > > >> What is needed is a revival of faith. For too long the western world
> > > >> has invested in the empty void of materialism, and even in the
> > > >> churches the taint of materialism stains the cup of the sacrament.
> > > >> From birth the children of the west are fed a steady diet of
> > > >> amusements, sugars, and fats, and no spiritual meat. Faith is the
> > > >> bread of life, and the mother's breast of the west has for too long
> > > >> been the dispenser of death. When you see a revival of faith in the
> > > >> west, then you see strong men and women once again proclaiming the
> > > >> glory of God, and the victory of Calvary. Then you will see
> > > >> Christians standing steafast against the forces of evil that
> corrupt
> > > >> the fabric of western culture.
> >
> > > >> thomas
> >
> > > >> On Nov 27, 11:49 am, LedZepp <FledZeppe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >>> Wanderer then LiamToo, who would be next and why?- Hide quoted text
> -
> >
> > > >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > To Drafter and Turner,
> >
> > > The western world is in a Twilight Zone. The materialistic culture has
> > > corrupted and infected every aspect of western life, science has
> > > advanced beyond the boundaries of moderation and prudence, the way of
> > > power has been overshadowed by the monolith of materialism and its
> > > co-benefactor. It is the partnership of materialism and capitalism that
> > > have taken control of God's creation and corrupted every aspect of
> life.
> > > The Christian followers have lost their way under the heavy burden of
> > > modern life. And western culture has infiltrated the church and the
> > > pews, so that the church now is in partnership with the state. But many
> > > are beginning to awaken and see the folly of the church state, and how
> > > politics has allowed these modern twins to invade every aspect of life
> > > and the church. The church must be free of the state, or there is a
> > > cohabitation with mammon. Mammon now rules the churches in the western
> > > culture.
> >
> > > thomas
> >
> > Sometimes I wish I were that kid in that Twilight Zone episode who could
> > send people to a cornfield in another dimension.
>
> chx
> your wish is granted...now go build the machine and your'e on your
> way ;)
...
...
Nope, it didn't work. You're still here.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > - Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
> >
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: YOUR HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS FOR R.B.D.P.
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/63299bc2270a49ad?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:31 pm
From: checkers
On Dec 2, 9:01 pm, Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 2, 1:57 pm, checkers <mkone...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 2, 5:23 pm, Lawrey <lawrenc...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > > =====YOUR HELP REQUIRE TO NEUTRALISE======
> > > ===THE WORST EFFECTS OF R. B. D. P.(Theists)===
>
> > -snip-
>
> > > offering a program devoid
> > > of violence, religion and religious literature, and all religious
> > > instruction, so that they may return to a normal human life
> > > within the realms of this world; without the incumbrance
> > > and or impediment of this religiously inspired brain
>
> > chx
> > what is a 'normal' human by your standards?
>
> > -snip-
>
> Don't worry. You fail.
chx
so what should i read into this?
um, normal = atheist?
wow! that kinda' sucks, that = Dev and that ain't good. he is out to
see all theists dead. 'freedom' at the expence of some 60%+ of all
humans killed. hey stalin, mao and hitler combined don't come close to
this.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:35 pm
From: checkers
On Dec 2, 9:19 pm, Dag Yo <sir_ro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think putting some basic logic class into the 7th grade cirriculum
> would do wonders.
chx
ha! this is funny. one credits me with grade 4 long ago. the next one
a grade 5, cool. now it is grade 7. i must be a genius. 3 grades in
two years ;)
hey Einstein, you are going down dude ;)
>
> On Dec 2, 7:23 am, Lawrey <lawrenc...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > =====YOUR HELP REQUIRE TO NEUTRALISE======
> > ===THE WORST EFFECTS OF R. B. D. P.(Theists)===
>
> > It is well known that religion came to be the infamous force
> > that it is today through barbaric, cruelty, torture, garrotting,
> > drawing the entrails and quartering the carcass and burning;
> > also by dint or threat, of more of the same barbarism.
> > Brute force backed up with constant fear and threats and
> > inculcating the fear of a superhuman power, who will be
> > avenged if it is not obeyed and believed as per the bible.
>
> > Today, many so-called christian societies and or their
> > governments, give tacit assent to very similar acts of
> > exactly the same form of barbarity albeit using different
> > methods. These theistic societies run by so-called
> > christians have learned nothing since their infamous
> > beginnings.
> > They constantly lead us into unwanted wars in the name
> > of, or by the approval of their gods.
>
> > May we enlist your suggestions to alleviate and or remove
> > the worst effects of R.B.D.P. by offering a program devoid
> > of violence, religion and religious literature, and all religious
> > instruction, so that they may return to a normal human life
> > within the realms of this world; without the incumbrance
> > and or impediment of this religiously inspired brain damage
> > known to us free-thinkers as Repetative Brain Disfunction.
> > R. B. D. P. (Repetative Brian Disfunctioning Personel,)
> > who term themselves (THEISTS), are a blight to the rest of
> > humanity and the safety of the world.
>
> > What remedial program to rid us and them of this awful
> > and unecessary condition of self – imposed, euphoric
> > hysterior, would you reccommend short of surgery and an
> > expensive drug regime, (which in these hard times we can
> > ill-afford,) except in extreme cases when we may consider
> > their use on clericks and clergy and clergymen from the
> > highest level, to the Brocks and STBs that proselytise here
> > with fanatic regularity.
>
> > Any program you may care to suggest will be carefully
> > considered;. It is to be hoped that should Dev' be
> > encouraged to afford a valuable opinion, that it will not be
> > so drastic as to terrify the R. B. D. P. It is after all a
> > remedial program designed so that eventually; that might
> > reunite all humanity. I know my friend Obs'will in the first
> > instance bridle, but I also know him to be of a kindly
> > disposition, but we atheist must stand together to find a
> > way to help all R. B. D. P. To come at last to their senses. ;)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nice.
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/91d6751736ff8cb2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:31 pm
From: "Turner Hayes"
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Dag Yo <sir_roko2@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> And nicely reported on.
>
> http://www.yahoo.com/s/996016
Well, if we have to tolerate religious shit in there, then this should
definitely be there. Good to see.
I'd rather they just did away with all the symbols.
> <http://www.yahoo.com/s/996016>
> >
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Congratulations
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/d322fa2af711303a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:33 pm
From: ObservantEye
Do you know of, or have you read any books on the theist side? I'd
like to see both sides and decide for myself, rather than only read
the books that already agree with one side...
On Dec 2, 2:10 pm, rappoccio <rappoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's a better idea: Go to the library on Sunday. Or hell, today.
>
> Check out a few books:
>
> http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-origin-of-species/
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp...
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Letter-Christian-Nation-Sam-Harris/dp/0307265773
>
> and start reading.
>
> On Dec 2, 2:18 pm, Mary Wolls <marywo...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > Woodbridge,
>
> > Go to church on Sunday. Then you will see.
>
> > Mary Wolls
>
> > > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:52:07 -0800> Subject: [AvC] Re: Congratulations> From: ipu.belie...@gmail.com> To: Atheism-vs-Christianity@googlegroups.com> > > On Dec 2, 1:12 pm, Mary Wolls <marywo...@live.com> wrote:> > > Woodbridge,> >> > When he enters your heart you will know.> > I saw this guy on YouTube who claims that the holy spirit enters> through a hole in the back of the head...> > I am confused now.> > I really really want this magical sky being to enter my body... But,> who to believe? Why?> _________________________________> I am fond of saying that reading the Bible turned me into an atheist.> -- Ruth Hurmence Green> _________________________________________________________________
>
> > You live life online. So we put Windows on the web.http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/
== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:39 pm
From: ObservantEye
You know what? I think you may be on to something here. I doubt it's
right or logical, but it seems much more pleasant..
On Dec 1, 4:58 pm, Dag Yo <sir_ro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I have to say this, and I know it'll clump your oats, but the reality
> > is that atheism is just as much a religion as any other.
>
> You're right it is a religion just like any other, but I think I'm
> going to convert to a different religion pretty soon and I'm wondering
> if you'd like to join me in becoming a convert. It's called aGenii-
> ism, and the ONLY qualification for joining this religion is that you
> don't happen to believe geniis exist -- in fact, if you don't happen
> to believe that geniis exist then you're already part of this new
> religion.
>
> > I have to
> > say, I've never seen anyone verbally fight for what they want near as
> > furiously as I've seen atheists do.
>
> Atheists don't "want" anything -- anti-theists, secularists, and
> humanists might have a few things they want, but atheists don't.
>
> > That may not fit the dictionary
> > definition of religion, but it has all the same attributes. It's
> > definitely a belief system, wouldn't you agree?
>
> Oh yeah, it's definitely a belief system. Just like, "my hair isn't
> on fire", "I don't believe unicorns exist", and "there isn't an
> elephant sitting on me right now" are also belief systems. And
> "system" is of course the key word here because there is obviously a
> lot of different interconnected beliefs involved.
>
> On Dec 1, 1:54 pm, ObservantEye <mike.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 1, 2:57 pm, Dag Yo <sir_ro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 1, 11:17 am, ObservantEye <mike.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:> I have to say, I joined this group, guessing at exactly what it would
> > > > contain, and I was, sadly, correct.
>
> > > > Atheists groups like this are 99% angry people who aren't actually
> > > > interested in intelligent discussion, but are trying to bait a non-
> > > > atheist into a flame war. There is SOME intelligent discussion here,
> > > > but it's not worth looking throu all the rubbish to find it. These
> > > > furious people know that they'll always win because the people they
> > > > wish to attack will not respond "in-kind," that is, abjectly hateful
> > > > language, cursing, name-calling, and outright tirades. The picture
> > > > you are painting of atheists is that you're all hateful old codgers
> > > > hiding in your basement screaming at the screens as you type holes
> > > > through your keyboard with every angry jab.
>
> > > I can kind of see how you might get that impression but sometimes when
> > > the person you're chatting with keeps lying, changing the subject,
> > > evading questions and generally acts like a prick, after a while it
> > > can irk even the most pleasant of us, and bring us to the point at
> > > which we'll use a bit of colorful language. I'd love an "intelligent
> > > discussion" and regularly try to have them with newbies, but the vast
> > > majority of theists newbies and old regulars alike really don't seem
> > > to be anything more than dishonest assholes...and at some point you've
> > > just got to call them on it -- if for no other reason that to attempt
> > > to make them see their dishonesty and hope that they will change their
> > > ways.
>
> > > > The atheists I've met in real life were thoughtful and weren't
> > > > arrogant enough to claim that they were actually no more than
> > > > agnostics.
>
> > > Actually atheism and agnosticism describe different qualities and are
> > > not mutually exclusive by any means.
>
> > > > Those of you flaming about logic-this and logic-that should consider
> > > > that no conclusion can be made without the facts. When, exactly, did
> > > > you get that last iota of information that decided it all for you?
>
> > > You actually need to use logic to make sense of the facts before you
> > > -- thats why we use it.
>
> > > > Of course, you'll flame me now, but that won't bother me one bit,
> > > > because upon my first read of this group, I realized there was not
> > > > enough intelligent conversation here to warrant dealing with the
> > > > hateful, unthinking (however, all-knowledgeable) codgers hacking at
> > > > their keyboards in their dark basements.
> > > > Maybe the group is misnamed? It's a one-sided battle from what I can
> > > > see here. Hmm... Maybe "Atheism Completely And Utterly Annihiliates
> > > > The Christian Girly Men With Their Mighty Nuclear-Powered Tongues"
>
> > > Of course it's a one-sided battle; when it comes to the God hypothesis
> > > there isn't the slightest bit of evidence and the atheists aren't
> > > making any unwarranted claims while theists are...
>
> > I have to say this, and I know it'll clump your oats, but the reality
> > is that atheism is just as much a religion as any other. I have to
> > say, I've never seen anyone verbally fight for what they want near as
> > furiously as I've seen atheists do. That may not fit the dictionary
> > definition of religion, but it has all the same attributes. It's
> > definitely a belief system, wouldn't you agree?
== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:40 pm
From: ObservantEye
Nope. No hate here!
On Dec 1, 6:42 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> What bad happens to the world when a Christian burns to death,
> exactly?
>
> Take flushing a public toilet as an example, if you like.
>
> On Dec 1, 4:29 pm, philosophy <smwil...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> > Mate, if a person was burning, I wouldn't be hanging around
> > to see if s/he was a Christian or not. I'd be in there helping to
> > put out the fire. I think you condemn yourself by your own words
> > and what is truly in your own self-deluded mind. I'll be happy if
> > you don't return. Goodbye!
> > Oh, you are an arrogant prick to condemn all atheists as being
> > similar. Nothing further from the truth. Just as in Christianity -
> > there are no two people who are entirely similar - you demean
> > the God you claim to serve. Would s/he be so stupid as to
> > make creation all the same? The last time I looked out the
> > window (just now) I witnessed a huge diversity.
> > Duh, go and get yourself an education - you need one, or
> > the research shows you will likely develop Alzeimer's
> > Disease - oops, my apologies, maybe you already have it.
> > That would certainly explain your post. Enjoy your unremarkable
> > life.
>
> > On Dec 2, 5:17 am, ObservantEye <mike.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I have to say, I joined this group, guessing at exactly what it would
> > > contain, and I was, sadly, correct.
>
> > > Atheists groups like this are 99% angry people who aren't actually
> > > interested in intelligent discussion, but are trying to bait a non-
> > > atheist into a flame war. There is SOME intelligent discussion here,
> > > but it's not worth looking throu all the rubbish to find it. These
> > > furious people know that they'll always win because the people they
> > > wish to attack will not respond "in-kind," that is, abjectly hateful
> > > language, cursing, name-calling, and outright tirades. The picture
> > > you are painting of atheists is that you're all hateful old codgers
> > > hiding in your basement screaming at the screens as you type holes
> > > through your keyboard with every angry jab.
>
> > > The atheists I've met in real life were thoughtful and weren't
> > > arrogant enough to claim that they were actually no more than
> > > agnostics.
>
> > > Those of you flaming about logic-this and logic-that should consider
> > > that no conclusion can be made without the facts. When, exactly, did
> > > you get that last iota of information that decided it all for you?
>
> > > Of course, you'll flame me now, but that won't bother me one bit,
> > > because upon my first read of this group, I realized there was not
> > > enough intelligent conversation here to warrant dealing with the
> > > hateful, unthinking (however, all-knowledgeable) codgers hacking at
> > > their keyboards in their dark basements.
>
> > > Maybe the group is misnamed? It's a one-sided battle from what I can
> > > see here. Hmm... Maybe "Atheism Completely And Utterly Annihiliates
> > > The Christian Girly Men With Their Mighty Nuclear-Powered Tongues"
>
> > > Of course, no self-respecting Christian would waste his time on you
> > > any more than you'd waste your time peeing on a burning Christian...- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:45 pm
From: ObservantEye
Errr. .. . whaaaa???!!!?? You've been making more sense than that
before now. Clever (?) comparisons that are completely unrelated
really don't make your point clear. I do understand that you disagree
with me, but I'm not following your reasoning...
On Dec 2, 10:10 am, rappoccio <rappoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 1, 4:54 pm, ObservantEye <mike.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 1, 2:57 pm, Dag Yo <sir_ro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 1, 11:17 am, ObservantEye <mike.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:> I have to say, I joined this group, guessing at exactly what it would
> > > > contain, and I was, sadly, correct.
>
> > > > Atheists groups like this are 99% angry people who aren't actually
> > > > interested in intelligent discussion, but are trying to bait a non-
> > > > atheist into a flame war. There is SOME intelligent discussion here,
> > > > but it's not worth looking throu all the rubbish to find it. These
> > > > furious people know that they'll always win because the people they
> > > > wish to attack will not respond "in-kind," that is, abjectly hateful
> > > > language, cursing, name-calling, and outright tirades. The picture
> > > > you are painting of atheists is that you're all hateful old codgers
> > > > hiding in your basement screaming at the screens as you type holes
> > > > through your keyboard with every angry jab.
>
> > > I can kind of see how you might get that impression but sometimes when
> > > the person you're chatting with keeps lying, changing the subject,
> > > evading questions and generally acts like a prick, after a while it
> > > can irk even the most pleasant of us, and bring us to the point at
> > > which we'll use a bit of colorful language. I'd love an "intelligent
> > > discussion" and regularly try to have them with newbies, but the vast
> > > majority of theists newbies and old regulars alike really don't seem
> > > to be anything more than dishonest assholes...and at some point you've
> > > just got to call them on it -- if for no other reason that to attempt
> > > to make them see their dishonesty and hope that they will change their
> > > ways.
>
> > > > The atheists I've met in real life were thoughtful and weren't
> > > > arrogant enough to claim that they were actually no more than
> > > > agnostics.
>
> > > Actually atheism and agnosticism describe different qualities and are
> > > not mutually exclusive by any means.
>
> > > > Those of you flaming about logic-this and logic-that should consider
> > > > that no conclusion can be made without the facts. When, exactly, did
> > > > you get that last iota of information that decided it all for you?
>
> > > You actually need to use logic to make sense of the facts before you
> > > -- thats why we use it.
>
> > > > Of course, you'll flame me now, but that won't bother me one bit,
> > > > because upon my first read of this group, I realized there was not
> > > > enough intelligent conversation here to warrant dealing with the
> > > > hateful, unthinking (however, all-knowledgeable) codgers hacking at
> > > > their keyboards in their dark basements.
> > > > Maybe the group is misnamed? It's a one-sided battle from what I can
> > > > see here. Hmm... Maybe "Atheism Completely And Utterly Annihiliates
> > > > The Christian Girly Men With Their Mighty Nuclear-Powered Tongues"
>
> > > Of course it's a one-sided battle; when it comes to the God hypothesis
> > > there isn't the slightest bit of evidence and the atheists aren't
> > > making any unwarranted claims while theists are...
>
> > I have to say this, and I know it'll clump your oats, but the reality
> > is that atheism is just as much a religion as any other. I have to
> > say, I've never seen anyone verbally fight for what they want near as
> > furiously as I've seen atheists do. That may not fit the dictionary
> > definition of religion, but it has all the same attributes. It's
> > definitely a belief system, wouldn't you agree?
>
> Atheism is a belief system the same way "clear" is a color, or "bald"
> is a hairstyle.
== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:46 pm
From: "Brock Organ"
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:40 PM, ObservantEye <mike.shull@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Nope. No hate here!
What an ... um, observant eye you have, ... um, ObservantEye ... :)
Regards,
Brock
>
> On Dec 1, 6:42 pm, Dev <thedevil...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> What bad happens to the world when a Christian burns to death,
>> exactly?
>>
>> Take flushing a public toilet as an example, if you like.
== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:48 pm
From: ObservantEye
You know, I don't think these guys are interested in Bible verses. I
think you're just poking a bear in a cage when you do that...
On Dec 2, 12:03 pm, Mary Wolls <marywo...@live.com> wrote:
> rappaccio,
>
> The faithful know them by their voice, there will always be wolves amongst the sheep until his return.
>
> Mary Wolls
>
> > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:53:39 -0800> Subject: [AvC] Re: Congratulations> From: rappoc...@gmail.com> To: Atheism-vs-Christianity@googlegroups.com> > > If "God's representatives" were a little better representatives, maybe> they would get better results?> > On Dec 2, 11:49 am, mary wolls <marywo...@live.com> wrote:> > ObservantEye,> >> > That has been my experience as well on this forum. You must have very> > thick skin to engage the atheists in this group because they are very> > angry. They have no peace with God, because they eschew his> > representatives.> >> > Mary Wolls> >> > On Dec 1, 11:17 am, ObservantEye <mike.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > > I have to say, I joined this group, guessing at exactly what it would> > > contain, and I was, sadly, correct.> >> > > Atheists groups like this are 99% angry people who aren't actually> > > interested in intelligent discussion, but are trying to bait a non-> > > atheist into a flame war. There is SOME intelligent discussion here,> > > but it's not worth looking throu all the rubbish to find it. These> > > furious people know that they'll always win because the people they> > > wish to attack will not respond "in-kind," that is, abjectly hateful> > > language, cursing, name-calling, and outright tirades. The picture> > > you are painting of atheists is that you're all hateful old codgers> > > hiding in your basement screaming at the screens as you type holes> > > through your keyboard with every angry jab.> >> > > The atheists I've met in real life were thoughtful and weren't> > > arrogant enough to claim that they were actually no more than> > > agnostics.> >> > > Those of you flaming about logic-this and logic-that should consider> > > that no conclusion can be made without the facts. When, exactly, did> > > you get that last iota of information that decided it all for you?> >> > > Of course, you'll flame me now, but that won't bother me one bit,> > > because upon my first read of this group, I realized there was not> > > enough intelligent conversation here to warrant dealing with the> > > hateful, unthinking (however, all-knowledgeable) codgers hacking at> > > their keyboards in their dark basements.> >> > > Maybe the group is misnamed? It's a one-sided battle from what I can> > > see here. Hmm... Maybe "Atheism Completely And Utterly Annihiliates> > > The Christian Girly Men With Their Mighty Nuclear-Powered Tongues"> >> > > Of course, no self-respecting Christian would waste his time on you> > > any more than you'd waste your time peeing on a burning Christian...> _________________________________________________________________
>
> Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_...
== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:48 pm
From: Medusa
mary;
> That has been my experience as well on this forum. You must have very
> thick skin to engage the atheists in this group because they are very
> angry. They have no peace with God, because they eschew his
> representatives.
How can I have "peace" with something I do not believe exists? Do you
have "peace' with Pegasus?
Rather an absud question, isn't it? You most likely do not believe in
the creatures in Greecian myths.
I do avoid any "representatives" of God because I don't like to be
preached at. I do, however, have interactions with God-believers. It
would be hard to live in my society without doing so. my life would
be rather lonely if I didn't. Much as I detest cliches, I have to
say, "But some of my best friends are religious. . ."
Medusa
== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:50 pm
From: ObservantEye
I'm mentally healthy and am an inquisitive child (at heart). As an
atheist, how do you decide what is right and what is wrong? Is there
a site or something I can see? I'm honestly curious here.
On Dec 2, 12:33 pm, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 2, 9:37 am, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 1, 5:10 pm, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 1, 1:19 pm, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I mean, come on, how can you respect yourself and believe you are a
> > > > > wretched
> > > > > > sinner who deserves nothing more than an eternity in hell at the same
> > > > > time?
>
> > > > > *good* *point*
>
> > > > > But most of the time I don't buy that they really see themselves as
> > > > > sinners.
>
> > > > Probably not, but that belief is absolutely the core of Christianity (and
> > > > most religions, incidentally)--without that belief, the "sacrifice" of
> > > Jesus
> > > > is useless and meaningless (why do we need a savior if we're not
> > > "depraved",
> > > > as Brock so gleefully puts it). They like to say that their religion is
> > > all
> > > > about love and forgiveness and shit, but they're lying or mistaken. All
> > > that
> > > > "God's love" is pointless if we don't need it to live a good life/get
> > > into
> > > > Heaven. So, as much as the phrase "true Christian" get well-deserved flak
> > > > around here, I think you could argue that anyone who DOESN'T see himself
> > > as
> > > > a sinner isn't a "true Christian", in the sense that he does not ACTUALLY
> > > > believe the core tenets of Christianity.
>
> > > I agree with you, but I'm finding it weird that the ones who seem the
> > > loudest about being depraved sinners (e.g. Brock, e.g. thea. e.g.
> > > preachers) come across as being the most in love with themselves.
>
> > That's a good point. But then, we know from his behavior that Brock doesn't
> > actually believe what he says, and only says it in order to justify his
> > unjustifiable points.
>
> Exactly. Brock just wants to be seen as Jesus Junior, so he talks the
> talk. That's my point. The only people that actually fall for the
> "wretched sinner" bullshit are frightened children and the mentally
> ill, it seems to me.
== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:54 pm
From: Medusa
Mary;
> Go to church on Sunday. Then you will see.
Been there, done that.
And I don't want to go back.
Medusa
== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:57 pm
From: ObservantEye
hahah! I don't think I'd put too much into his words. For one thing,
I don't have a hole in the back of my head, and don't know of anyone
else with that. Maybe he's the only one? I gotta go see if I can
find this guy on youtube now...
On Dec 2, 12:52 pm, Answer_42 <ipu.belie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 2, 1:12 pm, Mary Wolls <marywo...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > Woodbridge,
>
> > When he enters your heart you will know.
>
> I saw this guy on YouTube who claims that the holy spirit enters
> through a hole in the back of the head...
>
> I am confused now.
>
> I really really want this magical sky being to enter my body... But,
> who to believe? Why?
> _________________________________
> I am fond of saying that reading the Bible turned me into an atheist.
> -- Ruth Hurmence Green
== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 1:00 pm
From: Answer_42
On Dec 2, 3:05 pm, ObservantEye <mike.sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Once more, a theist playing the victim and showing signs of having
difficulties understanding simple sentences.
> I mentioned the insults? So far, here's a description of me by our
> peers here:
> A dishonest biased prick.
That was my comment, and
1) it was not an insult, just a fact.
2) not addressed at you, as you claim above.
> I am still spewing your bullshit about "new atheism" (actually, I've
> never heard the term before this comment)
Lifted from my post.
I was merely repeating what a theist has claimed (except for the
"spewing" and "bullshit" which are not really insults since "New
Atheism" is bullshit, and it was not addressed at you anyway.)
If you want to know about "new atheism", join the club! Ask Brock to
explain it.
The best he could do was produce a few web pages/blogs that used the
term in their page title. He could never demonstrate that it was an
actual movement/organization/philosophy/etc.
> Then you are no self-respecting Christian. (apparently not)
Where is the insult here?
> arrogant prick
Yep, that one is an insult!
> I have apparently been suffering from Alzheimer's. (wow, didn't see
> that one coming)
An wrong assessment?
> I have an unremarkable life.
Not insults.
> I have no feelings, no brains, no consciences, no ethics, absolutely
> nothing that a human would call human. Period.
A wrong assessment?
> Wow, that one had a "Period." So why should I even continue? How
> does one debate with that? I mean, I don't want to start with debates
> proving I have feelings, brains, conscience, ethics, and that I'm
> human! I mean, I need to go find those groups first, I guess...
So, you produced little evidence in lieu of actual insults that were
actually addressed at you.
But, considering that your OP was an open call for flaming how can you
be honestly surprised that you got what you were asking for?
In case you try to disagree with me, here is a little reminder of your
opening statement:
"
have to say, I joined this group, guessing at exactly what it would
contain, and I was, sadly, correct.
Atheists groups like this are 99% angry people who aren't actually
interested in intelligent discussion, but are trying to bait a non-
atheist into a flame war.
"
Right off the bat you claim that 99% percent of atheist on this site
are angry and do not want to intelligent discussions, so they must be
stupid or something like that.
Then you have the balls to state that the same atheists are only
interested in flaming?
"Arrogant prick" was too good for you, actual bona fide arrogant
pricks the world over are offended that you were associated with them.
_________________________________
I am fond of saying that reading the Bible turned me into an atheist.
-- Ruth Hurmence Green
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Vatican raises the white flag..
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/c0bfa2389b80f1a9?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:40 pm
From: "Turner Hayes"
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Treebeard <allan_c_cybulskie@yahoo.ca>wrote:
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 9:49 am, "Turner Hayes" <lordlacol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Treebeard <allan_c_cybuls...@yahoo.ca
> >wrote:
> > > > Yup; tasty, tasty hypocritical-theist fruit.
> >
> > > Do you have any actual logical objection to my position?
> >
> > None that hasn't been covered by others in this thread.
> >
> > > And how is
> > > it hypocritical?
> >
> > That's already been covered: they're praising those who they think are
> going
> > to hell for having the gall not to believe in their god.
>
> For helping to preserve their ability to convince them -- and others
> -- the right thing to do ...
>
> >
> > > Do you think that Catholicism and Islam would join
> > > forces under any OTHER circumstances? You've heard of the Crusades, I
> > > take it?
> >
> > And we're supposed to be responsible for the choices the thetards make?
>
> If you want moderate religious people to side against more extremist
> religions -- and no one with any intelligence will ever assert that
> Catholcism is not less extremist than Islam -- then attacking all
> religion will not achieve that. What is your goal?
To eliminate religion, ultimately. And before your paranoia gland kicks into
overdrive, no, not by force, or even by legal measures, but education and
encouraging rational debate and dispelling the numerous myths about atheism
and atheists. And pandering to religion will not achieve that.
>
> >
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help me understand.
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/4ccde3b062522deb?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:45 pm
From: Ruthie
Thank you so much.This was the nicest post I have read. I truly am
confused. I am not wanting to argue with anyone about if there is a
god or not. I feel something in my soul and always have. I just think
some of it was mislead. I will get back to you, Thanks.
On Dec 2, 11:19 am, Saved1 <t...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> Hello Ruthie! First of all I would like to tell you some good news.
> You are seeking and God says "seek and you'll find, knock and the door
> will be opened to you".
>
> First of all there is only one true saviour. Those other saviours you
> mentioned, you have to ask yourself, what did they save people from?
> Was it something that lasts forever or was it something that was only
> temporary. The real saviour became a man, lived with us for over 30
> years and paid the price for our sins by suffering a horrible death so
> that all who believe and trust in Him would escape the penalty for sin
> and have eternal life. To prove that He was indeed the saviour, God
> raised Him from the dead and He is in heaven now at God's right hand,
> waiting to receive anyone who will believe and trust in Him. Now
> that's what I call "love"!
>
> About all those hateful things in the world, God did not put those
> hateful things out there. Those hateful things are the result of
> man's free will. You see God gave us all a free will. He doesn't
> force anyone to do anything. Some people choose good and some choose
> evil. If we didn't have free will, there would be no such thing as
> love. If we are all forced to love and obey God, we would be like
> robots and would be incapable of loving anyone. But because of free
> will, we can choose to love and obey God or we can choose to hate
> God. We can choose to love others or hate others. Because of free
> will, God knows who really loves Him and who doesn't. We also know
> who really loves us and who doesn't.
>
> The scriptures are God's love letter to you. It is a history of how
> God is and how he relates to humans and most of all, they show us His
> plan for our salvation. First you must know who the real saviour is.
> I suggest reading the gospel of John. It comes right after Luke and
> before Acts. The real God does truly love you as you will find out by
> reading His love letter. However, you can't understand the scriptures
> on your own, you must ask God to send His Holy Spirit to help you
> understand His word.
>
> I will be happy to try and answer any other questions you may have.
>
> On Dec 1, 11:57 am, checkers <mkone...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 1, 7:39 pm,Ruthie<willruthie1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > I just found out about a year ago about all the other gods before
> > > Jesus. I was raised catholic and a long time ago I realized they were
> > > wrong.So I was seeking a true christian,who read the bible.Then with
> > > in my search I discovered all these things about the other saviours. I
> > > always felt like what is wrong with a god, who would put so much
> > > hatred out there. Everything in the bible is so hateful. I am a
> > > wonderful person and never would hurt anyone. I feel there must be a
> > > supreme person,who loves us. I just don't think it's the god of the
> > > bible.
>
> > > Any christians out there please explain to me about the other
> > > saviours before christ. I truly want to know. Thanks
>
> > chx
> > if i may ask, you're an atheist so why are you looking for a way out?
>
> > i think you are baiting us.
>
> > > On Dec 1, 10:56 am, Lawrey <lawrenc...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > > >Ruthie,
>
> > > > Your plea to be saved and or need to be saved asks so
> > > > many questions that cannot be answered except by asking
> > > > yourself what do I want to be saved from and is it necessary?
>
> > > > Then answer these questions honestly and answer them logically.
>
> > > > 1. what is belief? The logical answer is a notion inculcated
> > > > into the mind by others.
>
> > > > 2. If the belief on which I rely to save me is just a notion, what
> > > > is the notion? The logical answer is....the notion is of some
> > > > paganistic, superhuman, mythical power, that cannot be known.
> > > > It is nothing in reality or of this world, or any other world known
> > > > to man. It is an idea planted in my head, of which I can believe
> > > > at will or not at all, without the slightest effect on me or the world
> > > > in which I live.
>
> > > > 3. If this notion of a godthing in my mind equates to nothing
> > > > then there is no godthing or saviour to come to my rescue...
>
> > > > You must come to terms with the truth and you alone can
> > > > find it. It is not in religions and godthings in bible-books.
> > > > It is recognising that we as humans are all responsible in our
> > > > actions for the welfare of every other human being and
> > > > if we act to the detriment of others, we must accept the
> > > > responsiblity and take the consequences, there is nothing to
> > > > protect us except we ourselves who rely on and in each other.
>
> > > > Shit in all shapes happens, accept it and get over it and or
> > > > live with it, we all have to from time to time.
>
> > > > The truth is simple, don't try to complicate it, there is just you
> > > > and me and the world and we must make the best of it for the
> > > > benefit of us all.
>
> > > > On Dec 1, 4:09 am,Ruthie<willruthie1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I am just so confused. The bible never made sense to me. The things
> > > > > written were horrible. Revelations makes me scared. Please someone
> > > > > tell me how A god who loves us would treat us this way. Please someone
> > > > > explaine the truth about other saviors with similar stories to christ.
> > > > > I am tired of lies. I want the truth. Once someone can show me the
> > > > > truth,that the bible is true than I will ask to be saved. I have
> > > > > asked lots of times to be saved and nothing happened.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT. 13 Days of Christmas Campaign Against Child Abuse
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/6a8110621f5d13ba?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 12:59 pm
From: Woodbridge
Borgan supports Vatican hiding priests raping little children
On Dec 2, 11:14 am, "Brock Organ" <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:08 PM, floyd_1977 <floyd_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 2, 10:24 am, "Brock Organ" <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Woodbridge <Woodbri...@archaeologist.com>
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> But why Borgan does not say YES?
>
> >> > Good Question ;-)
>
> >> >> Because he tolerates priest raping little children
>
> >> Or not. :)
>
> > Do you kind of already know that raping children is wrong, or do you
> > need to consult the confession on this one, like you do everything
> > else?
>
> Do not taunt happy fun ball. ;D
>
> Regards,
>
> Brock
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TOPIC: Theism and Special Privilege
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/t/3cc405563ba2a0ae?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 2 2008 1:00 pm
From: Woodbridge
Violation of Christian Code of Conduct #2:
"Labeling Atheists
Some Christians have labeled atheists as stupid, devil-worshippers, or
morally void. Though there may be some atheists who
fit these categories (as would many in the general population),
atheists are not categorically stupid, devil-worshipping,
degenerates with no morals. Many of them are fine citizens, honest,
caring, loving, and patient. For a Christian, or anyone
for that matter, to make a blanket statement about atheists in a
derogatory manner is wrong. It is the same thing atheists
sometimes do when they accuse Christians of being irrational,
psychotic, or stupid. Such accusations have no place on either
side of the argument of truth.
Generally speaking, atheists are not stupid. Many of them have thought
through their position over a long period of time and
arrive at conclusions after much thought. Some were raised in
religious homes, have seen what religion has to offer, and
have rejected it. Of course, I think that atheists have drawn
incorrect conclusions about God, but it doesn't mean they are
dumb. Some atheists have presented very cogent arguments against the
existence of God, which need to be addressed.
So, just because someone believes in God and encounters someone who
doesn't, that does not mean that either side is stupid.
Labeling and name-calling have no place in the discussion.
Ignoring Atheists' Questions
If you were standing on a railroad track and a train was heading your
way, closing your eyes and ignoring the locomotive
will not make it go away. If an atheist asks a question and you
ignore it repeatedly, it would be fair for him to conclude
you were incapable of answering the objection. Of course, this does
not mean you have to always answer everything because
dialogue flows both ways. But, it is important that you face issues.
If you don't have an answer, admit it. That's okay.
It doesn't mean you are wrong. It means you don't have an answer. Go
study and get an answer and get back to him.
Stating that Atheism is a religion
Atheists will repeatedly tell you that they are not in a religion. A
religion almost always is defined to include belief in
a deity of some sort. Atheism is non-belief in a deity. It isn't
necessarily a "belief that there is no God," (though it can
be)but is "not believing either way."
To label an atheist as a religious person is to put up a roadblock to
effective communication. It would be like someone
saying to a Christian, "You believe in a mean, tyrannical being who
likes to torture people." The Christian would simply
roll his eyes and think that the person doesn't know what he's talking
about. So, how much effective conversation could
there be in either instance? Not much.
Stating unsupportable facts
No one has all documentation for everything they say. It is not
reasonable to require proof from an atheist on everything
said. Nevertheless, if you are going to state a fact or two, it is
good to have the documentation at the tip of your tongue
-- at least occasionally, of have access to it. It adds to your
credibility. Of course, you don't have to document
everything, but if you have some illustrious fact to use, try and have
it documented.
Never admitting when you are wrong
Pride is a harmful thing. It caused the fall. It ruins marriages.
It leads to anger and self-righteousness. It has no
place in the Christian's life. Never admitting you are wrong is being
prideful. If an atheist, or anyone, proves you wrong
is something, be kind and courteous. Admit you made a mistake and go
on. Everyone makes mistakes, even atheists. There is
nothing wrong with admitting an error. It no more proves you are
wrong about Christianity than being wrong about the color
of a boat means boats don't exist. But, if you never admit when you
are wrong, you will not be able to convince anyone in a
discussion of your position. You will simply lose the respect of the
one with whom you are debating."
http://www.carm.org/atheism/christianmistakes.htm
On Dec 2, 11:17 am, "Brock Organ" <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Brock Organ <brockor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 6:33 AM, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> On Nov 30, 11:59 am, "Trance Gemini" <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > Theists. A question. Please read the following article.
>
> >> >> > Now, please explain to me why this Texas man was sent to a
> >> >> > psychiatrist
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > claiming that your god told him to hit this woman's car
>
> >> >> Check with the local district attorney who supervised the case for
> >> >> more specifics.
>
> >> >> > and why Bush was not
> >> >> > sent to a psychiatrist for claiming that your god told him to send
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > troops into Iraq?
>
> >> >> Check with your local constitutional attorney who has supervised the
> >> >> case for more specifics.
>
> >> > I would prefer your thoughts on the matter Brock.
>
> >> Those are my thoughts on the matter. You asked the naive question,
> >> and I answered by noting the legal contexts are different.
>
> > And how are the legal contexts different?
>
> As I indicated above, specific legal questions are often best answered
> by a lawyer.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brock
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